Anonymous said: So misandry is not hatred of men?
Misandry is a word that exists, however, misandry is NOT a real thing that actually exists in our society in the real world. There is no male equivalent to misogyny in our culture. Hating men is one thing, however having a culture that is built around the oppression of men is entirely different. We don’t have that. We have a culture built on the oppression of women.
Yes, you can hate men. NO, men are NOT oppressed as a function of our culture. Women are. Misogyny is very real, women really ARE oppressed. Misogyny is not just a hatred of women, it is the systematic oppression of women built into the fabric of our society. That’s what a lot of people don’t seem to understand.
Misogyny: Hatred of women COMBINED with cultural, systematic oppression.
Hatred of men: What some people claim is misandry, but which lacks the cultural, systematic oppression and is thus not comparable to misogyny at all.
Misandry exists in fictional worlds, not the real world. I know of no culture on Earth that systematically oppresses men and considers them second class citizens. If you want a fantasy example of actual misandry, I recommend War of the Spider Queen, a series of graphic novels about the Drow, a species of dark elves from the Forgotten Realms. They’re very good, and they actually represent a true “Matriarchal” society where the men are considered second-class citizens: weaker and stupider than their female counterparts.
dictionaries definition of misogyny: a hatred of women
misandry: a hatred of men
do either of them say a word about oppression? no, no they do not
This is not a dictionary battle, this is a discussion of ethics. I have to work within the confines of words available to me, however, the dictionary should not be your only source of information. Refusing to listen to the experiences of the actual people who are oppressed is willful ignorance.
Oppression + power is what TRULY makes misogyny. Women do not have the power in our culture.
The hate a woman may have towards a man is not comparable to the hate built into the structure of our very society that oppresses women in every facet of our daily lives. Misogyny is inherently different from “women hating men” in important and fundamental ways. Misandry is meant to be a similar word, however, because in our culture men are NOT systematically oppressed, there is absolutely no comparison at all between the real misogyny that exists in every facet of our culture, and the “misandry” some men think they are experiencing.
The thing is, most of men’s problems stem from patriarchy itself. And they are curable with feminism. Or “equalism”. Or gender rights. Or whatever you want to call it. Honestly the word “feminism” is too limiting, and does exclude non-binary people. The beliefs of feminism, however, help ALL people.
circumcision is caused by the misogyny in our culture? explain further
Yup. And biased rape laws. And child support laws. And custody laws. And lack of male domestic abuse shelters despite the rates for domestic abuse being almost the same across both genders. All because of our patriarchie moste evile.
1. I assume you mean only male (penile) circumcision. Because female genital mutilation is DEFINITELY misogynistic.
Penile circumcision is not caused by misogyny. It’s caused by patriarchy, confusion about masturbation and hygiene, and by religion. Misogyny and patriarchy are not the same thing. “A Patriarchy” is a culture that is predominantly run by, well, men. Misogyny is a hatred of women with the power to enforce that hatred.
Penile circumcision is actually an issue many feminist and gender rights activists care very much about. The history of modern circumcision in America is actually very interesting. Circumcision found popularity in Victorian England as a “cure” for masturbation (there’s your link to puritanical religion), and it spread to America like wildfire. Americans for some reason believe circumcising the child will make them more “manly”. Many Americans also believe (falsely) that uncircumcised penises are dirty and prone to disease. They also think that it’s simply tradition: since the dad had it done, you have to do it to the child so they can look like dad, or they’ll be terribly confused and traumatized their whole life (silly really!).
2. As for those other issues, YES. Patriarchy IS to blame. And here’s how:
Our culture tells men they cannot be weak. Why would a MAN need rape counseling? MEN cannot be raped! MEN are too STRONG to be raped! A woman can’t rape a MAN, rape is only a penetrative act! If the MAN has an erection he clearly wants it!!
Obviously all of the above are lies. And guess what? Feminism knows that. Feminists KNOW that men can be raped. Feminists WANT there to be male rape shelters.
Moving on to child support laws: God that’s a sticky fucking mess. “It takes two to make a kid” logic, et all. But really where those laws came from was a time where the MAN was expected to be the sole breadwinner for the family and the woman was expected to stay home, pregnant and barefoot in the kitchen. GAG ME WITH A SPOON THE SEXISM IS PAINFUL.
As we educated people of the present time know, women are perfectly capable of making their OWN money. I know of a lot of women (feminists too) who think our child support laws need a serious overhaul because they ARE unfair. *I* think they’re unfair.
And the same goes with shelters for men who are victims of domestic abuse. Sad fact, did you know that if you include the statistics of prison rape, men are actually raped MORE than women in America? They’re being raped by other men, obviously. The #1 rapist in America is Men, and the #1 victim is also Men. It’s sad you guys are doing this to yourselves. But that’s the thing. Rape isn’t about sex or about women wearing “slutty” clothing. Rape is about power. And again, as victims, you can’t even speak up because our male-dominated culture says that men can’t be victims of rape.
And you just got told this information by a self-identifying feminist. A feminist just told you that women are not the #1 rape victim in America.
You do know that male and female circumcision to protect you from masturbation started around the same time, but female circumcision was made illegal whereas male circumcision stayed, right? You do know that feminists have closed down male abuse shelters, right? You do know feminists have lobbied against unbiased rape laws, right, you do know feminists have lobbied against unbiased child custody laws, right? You do know that feminists have lobbied against unbiased child support laws, right? Also, I want you to learn something very important, so listen carefully:
the patriarchy is not a given.
Yeah. It’s not. You assume that the patriarchy is a given that everybody accepts, and that people who hate feminism love the patriarchy and people who love feminism hate the patriarchy. That’s wrong, people who hate feminism don’t believe in the patriarchy and people who love feminism believe in the patriarchy. Now, there are laws biased against women, so we can’t be a matriarchy; and there are laws biased against men, so we can not be a patriarchy. Yup, the patriarchy doesn’t exist. If the patriarchy existed, there would be legal male genital mutilation, there wouldn’t be child support laws biased against men, there wouldn’t be rape laws biased against men, there wouldn’t be child custody laws biased against men, all these injustices against men are clear signs that the patriarchy doesn’t exist.
I’m not talking about the old, historical, religious reasons people circumcised. I’m talking about how it became so popular in the USA and why it’s so RARE everywhere else in the world. Literally we are like, the only country that circumcises our kids with penises this much.
Here’s a great source. The modern era of circumcision for males can be traced to Victorian England.
I don’t really give a shit what other feminists have done in the past, other than to say “they were actually really fucked up and the movement needs to learn from the mistakes of the past and move on”. I don’t care what they lobbied against or for. To be honest the NAME doesn’t even matter to me.
I am against the patriarchy as it exists in our current culture right here and now in America. It’s that simple. The way patriarchy exists in our culture right now is oppressive, not just to women but to all non-men. Period. It is. If you’re not a man, you do not benefit. Even the “female privileges” are steeped in sexism and backhanded “chivalry” that is formed in misogyny. Including child support laws. And I NEVER said that all feminists hate the patriarchy. Of course there are feminists who for some unclear reason love the system that oppresses them. I think it makes no sense but hey, that’s their choice to be illogical.
I hate American patriarchal culture.
I don’t get the issue of the circumcision. Its not like their going to miss it. If anything it saves you a step when taking a shower. Its not mentally scaring or anything so its not really an issue.
ever feel water slowly wrap around your finger due to molecular gravity? its freaking creepy.
"I can feel the evil!!"